@ariadne@eldritch.cafe They are both true at the same time. We are losing informed people due to doomism, and at the same time losing everyday people due to the capitalist misinformation and delay campaigns.

@ariadne@eldritch.cafe That's good to hear!

I urge you to think about the ways different speech acts influence people.

There's a massive problem with people getting defeated right at this time when their collective actions would have the biggest impact.

This defeatism is happening, I claim, in large part because it's so comfortable to believe that "the end" is inevitable. That means you don't need to do anything, and even that you are the smart one not doing anything.

That mentality must be rejected.

@ariadne@eldritch.cafe In the Global North, that still leaves the middle class and a much of the upper classes. Still an overwhelming democratic majority.

@ariadne@eldritch.cafe Yes, I'm aware of the studies, and they are good to know about.

But IMO it's highly irresponsible to use those risks to claim "the end" is coming, ignoring all of ways we can still change the outcome.

I've seen this play out time and time again: it's especially those who have the highest capability to act that are first to give up on the slightest whiff that it might fail.

@ariadne@eldritch.cafe "it will be far better if humans themselves become extinct as quickly as possible."

Should we look at the millions or billions of people who are taking from nature only the amount that nature can regenerate, and say to them you need to go extinct?

Or should we rather blame the people who are taking vastly more from nature than nature can regenerate and demand them to stop the excess?

To me it's obvious the latter is right and the former a gross injustice.

@ariadne@eldritch.cafe "even though we must keep trying until the end"

This sounds like a wrong analysis. There is no single cut-off point we are about to hit after which it's "the end". A runaway hot house scenario is unlikely, as per IPCC 2022.

That means that there is (with high probability) never in our lifetimes a time to stop fighting. Every species saved, every forest protected, and every life saved is a massive victory. Even though we can't save everything, does not mean we mustn't save what we can.

@ariadne@eldritch.cafe "because they have not overthrown capitalism"

I'm for overthrowing capitalism, but the responsibility for that isn't "humans in general" either, not even close.

I would never blame the everyday people living in the Global South where either socialism was tried but then destroyed by US-backed coups, or where SAPs and IMF / World bank / WTO deals guaranteed poverty.

Nor would I blame the poorest in the Global North who are working around the clock just to keep their heads above water.

@ariadne@eldritch.cafe @farhanasultana Yes, unfortunately both links are still paywalled apart from the first page pdf.

@wion@writing.exchange Ah, yes, I get what you meant, but I didn't mean everyone needs to go on the streets. Just an equally big percentage would be overwhelming. And a good portion of the people who are have the resources to complain, could also act.

What's missing, I claim, is the simple realization that political change is created and doesn't just happen.

@wion@writing.exchange "nobody wants to work hard"

My point is exactly that the people creating the far right nationalist wave are working very hard. It hasn't come out of nowhere, but from a coordinated global campaign.

That should, if anything, give people hope that huge political shifts are possible, and it's about whose message wins.

I keep hearing centrists say big enough political change to stop the climate and ecological breakdown is impossible because far right nationalism is gaining power.

For some reason they miss that the rise of far right nationalism is created by a small group politically active people. There is no reason it can't be defeated if the centrist majority put in the work instead of complaining.